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My name is Bill Herzke and I lived in Calgary.

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Last fall in October I was working on a ranch,

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Southwest of Cochrane, which would be, pardon me,

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Northwest of Cochrane, which would be Northwest of Calgary.

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And it was on a beautiful morning.

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Excuse me. Would you honor the ranch find if you gave the name of the ranch

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and the name of the owner just so you have the address, do you think?

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It was the Circle J Ranch owned by Jack Giles of Shepherd.

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And it was a beautiful morning.

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That morning I rode out and I was bringing in the cattle

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because we were planning of spraying them for warbles.

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We generally do that in the fall on ranches.

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And as I was down in the pasture where the cattle were,

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I had rode down the hill to the valley where the joy of the cattle were.

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And I've gone past the opening where, on my way back where I seen this craft,

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there wasn't anything there at the time because I had looked around,

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looking for calves and various cattle that might have been sticking in a bush

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or just laying down or something like that.

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And I rode on over to the valley and up the other side of the hill,

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around up the main herd that was in the valley.

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And on my way back I had almost completed chasing them up the hill

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or through this on the road going up the hill.

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All of a sudden my horse shied on me and I had a dog with me

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which I was training for moving cattle in a bush country like that.

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A dog is quite useful to you because you can get in the bush

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and get him out where a man can't get in with a horse.

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And as I was cutting aside to bring back a small calf

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that was going to wander off on the side on me, my horse shied.

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And first I thought it was a dog because he had a habit of jumping at the horse's hoofs

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or at the tail grabbing it and making him buck.

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And I looked around and I couldn't see the dog at all.

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And my eye caught something just off to the south to where I was.

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Silverish gray, all I could see was a tail of it.

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I turned my horse around and went back around the blot where this object was sitting.

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And I had a very good look at it.

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It was about 9.30 in the morning and the sun was shining beautifully.

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And I see this craftage look like an airplane,

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much of a similar shape as an airplane.

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And I got the wings and that was set back more like a hawk that was flying down in a power dive

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to take a spray off the ground.

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And it was very neatly compact.

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The length of the ship itself, it estimated about 16 feet in length.

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The tip of a wingspan, I estimated about 12 feet.

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And the depths of it about 4.5 to 5 feet.

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Now the peculiar thing about it was that it had waffle type exterior

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only on its sides from a portion of the back down to so far down its side towards the bottom.

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The bottom and the top had nothing on it.

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It was just a silverish gray material looking.

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And the dome portion of it looked like plexiglass material.

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And I could see right in.

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And I was quite amazed what I seen inside.

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And on the dashboard and top there was a, oh I'd say about maybe 14 inch square TV screen.

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It looked like a TV screen.

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And just below that was a mass of dials and switches.

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It had on the top row there was five dials with needles and figures on.

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I couldn't see.

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I was at it about 12 feet.

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I couldn't get my horse close enough to see what actually figures were on or anything like that.

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Excuse me.

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Was the underbrush so dense or wouldn't your horse go closer?

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Well I feel the horse was more scared of the object because it chided in the first place from it.

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And that's what drew my attention to it.

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There was five dials in a row on top.

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There was four below the next row.

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And then the next row of that there was, I didn't exactly count them.

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There was quite a few knobs.

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How would you call this?

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Sculptage.

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Sculptage, yes.

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And below that was a row of small switches that looked like a switchboard on a telephone operating table.

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And below that again there was another row of switches a little bigger and they were on a swiveling angle.

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You could tilt either way and they were a little bit bigger and they were flat on the sides but round on each edge.

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They had a little knob on the end of it and I'd say they were about an inch and a quarter or inch and a half in length.

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They were much, a little longer than the other ones were.

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The other ones ran from about 0.5 inch to ¼ of an inch long.

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But what amazes me was that all these switches, they were clear.

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Hand marking across them which looked like there might have been something written on indicating what they were.

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But the switches itself, the knobs and everything, they were clear.

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Just like if they were, well I would say they were made out of plexiglass.

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Everything that was inside of it resembled that.

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Just at the bottom there was two small bucket seats.

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Back a piece and ahead of each bucket seat there was a plexiglass type stick with a small ball on the end.

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I would say it was about an inch and a half or might not even be that in diameter.

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And it stood up maybe about four inches above the beginning of the dashboard.

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And I noticed that the seats had seat belts on each one of them.

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And these seat belts, they looked like, oh, might have been kind of a webbing material but it was an awful fine weave.

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Whatever material it would have been.

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I couldn't see no buckles on it.

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I just see the straps hanging down from each side where I was standing or sitting on my horse.

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And I could see real good inside.

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And just back of the bucket seats there was a wall and it looked like there was three steps that I could make out.

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That were down in the back of that just in about the center of the chairs.

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And there was a door leading into the back of that. It was closed.

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But on the back of the wall there was two round objects that looked like, could have been lights for the cabin at night.

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And on the dome on the side there was two strips about two and a half inches wide in the same color as the plain itself, a silverish gray.

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And in behind that in the inside looked like there could have been almost like a fluorescent light.

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To me it would have looked like a fluorescent light sitting in behind a heavy glass on each side of that.

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Tell me, how big were those seats and how big was that door that led into the back roughly?

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Well, the door I estimate at about two by three, two feet in the width of it and the height of it was about three feet.

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And the door was, surprisingly was, open about two inches.

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Was this the door behind the seats?

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No, this is the door entering into the craft itself.

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What about this door behind the seats? Was it about the same?

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That looked about the same, the same two by three.

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And the size of the seats again about?

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Well, I would say, like this chair you're sitting here?

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No, it wasn't that big.

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I would say it would take about anything from a 50 pound to maybe an 80 pound youth.

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But it would have to be very thin.

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I mean, because the seats weren't, they weren't wide, but they had a beautiful, comfortable shape to them.

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It looked like they could sit in them and...

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Was the seat part of it the same clear material or did it have something like a color?

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No, that amazed me too.

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The seat looked just like glass.

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It was amazing.

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But you could see the underneath where there must have been a cutting or something in this seat portion itself where the straps went through.

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Because that's what gave me, that's what drawed my attention to the seat belts.

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Otherwise, I don't think I would have quite noticed them.

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And it was quite clear to see them go through there and hanging over each side.

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But the buckles must have been on the floor, but I couldn't get close enough to see direct down long side.

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I didn't make any difference which way I rode around the whole thing, but I couldn't see right into the floor.

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But even how the seats were fastened, on one side of it, on the way the thing was sitting there,

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it was pointing north, the pale was south.

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And on the west side where the door was, it was open.

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The two-inch stutter that was open, I could just see through in one position,

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but I could only see the corner of the chair.

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I couldn't make out what the foundation of it was sitting on or whether it had springs underneath it or anything to cushion them or anything like that.

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I couldn't see that, but I could see through there and on to the dashboard again.

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Another thing I looked for, whether they, what they steered with there was a foot paddles or anything.

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I couldn't see nothing like that. There wasn't anything like that at all.

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But these sticks that were in front of them, they kind of used me because they seemed to be just solid sat right in there.

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They didn't seem to, I don't know what they'd be good for really.

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And another thing that amazed me too is that after I'd rolled around and looked the inside of it to my satisfactory

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and got just about to see what it was all about that I could explain it,

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I rolled back around the bluff.

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It was a, um, thatcher willows in the kind of a V shape where it was sitting in and there was a creek running just ahead of it there.

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I rolled back around that and tied my horse onto the willows and I came straight through to the front of it.

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And I got within eight feet. I'd say the nose of it was about eight feet from the willows.

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And I had a...

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How high would the nose be off the ground?

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Well, I'd say the body portion itself, the underneath carriage was about 18 inches.

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Could have been 20 and could have maybe less.

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It was... these estimating, I know, just by putting my hands together and figuring a distance could have been, see.

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And I figured about 18 inches.

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But I looked for an undercarriage such as wheels.

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There was no sign of anything. It was absolutely smooth.

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There wasn't...

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The peculiar thing about was there wasn't a seam in it.

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There wasn't no way... even the windows that were inset, they just seemed to be molded right out.

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And instead of the womb, there was... the wings were set in the way the wings were.

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There was no seam around the wings. There was no way of attachments.

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Or the only thing you could see was the door that there was in just for the door.

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But what they were like, I couldn't say.

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The door wasn't open enough that I could see hinges actually.

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But I took for granted there must have been hinges, armor or some...

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Could you see any inch of the door? Like did it have a metal frame or anything like that?

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Well, it had a real tight fitting in it.

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And it looked like there was a... the casing itself was kind of grooved in like that.

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And the door fitted in and the outside of the door had the same thing like this.

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So it sat in to make kind of an air tight and it was flush.

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There was no... there was no... bumps or anything sticking out like that.

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And it kind of made me... because it just hung there in there.

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There was no... there was no...

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No landing gear, no landing gear.

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You could have put your hand right on the knee.

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Did you see it from two sides? You're sure that you didn't miss any support?

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No, I didn't because I tell you, I would... what made me...

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Why I'm saying this is because I looked for identification of a craft marking.

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Because most of our planes have some kind of identification on them.

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Underneath the wings or around the tail portion or parts of the body.

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There was no identification of any kind I could see.

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And therefore I know that there was no... there was no legs of anything underneath it.

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You could have ran your hand straight underneath it and you wouldn't have hit nothing.

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What did you think when you saw me like that for a while?

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Well, I didn't know what to expect.

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I have mentioned this and I'll mention it again that I was scared.

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Because I didn't know what to expect or be unexpected.

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And I think that's what really made me scared because I had no idea what could happen.

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And as much as I wanted to walk up to it and I had the opportunity, the door was open for me.

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I couldn't have wished for anything better.

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But still, the fear inside of me told me, you don't bother them, they won't bother me.

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And I'm glad I did because I think that was a good theory at the time.

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And it really scared me more than anything.

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I was frightened, I didn't know what to expect.

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I was alone and not only that, I can't run.

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I had polio when I was a boy and anybody chased me, I just had to stand and take it.

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So I had no choice.

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I was scared, I thought I'd leave well enough alone and get all the information off I could

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and keep my distance as far as I could or at least get as close as I can without disturbing anything.

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And everything seemed to work out real good for me.

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And another peculiar thing I noticed was that there was a funnel shaped thing on the bottom.

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It came up, or even with the body, and it sloped in towards the center on both sides,

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just in the middle of the plane, which I felt that might have been their exhaust or whatever they drive the ship with.

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And another thing I paid very much attention to was to look for a hole in the back as a jet.

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Our jets didn't, there was nothing in the back, it was just a smooth round finish off.

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And the wings there, I looked for a little holes in the wings, which I thought there might be little motors

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or something that could have been sitting or exhaust in the back doing.

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They just came to a feather point in the back and that was it to that.

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There was nothing and the wings were absolutely smooth.

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But the outside of the plane, like I had mentioned before, it was in a waffle type pattern.

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And it ran only so far up towards the top and so far towards the bottom.

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And as it petered towards the front of the thing, there was only parts of it which show a half a waffle or three-quarters of a waffle.

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Now these waffles were inset, they were in deeper than the surface.

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Yes, they were. To my figuring, as near as I could estimate them, they were in about half an inch, maybe to an inch.

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But I don't think they're any further than that and they might have not even been that far.

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Well, I'd say that they'd be either on an estimate from two to two and a half, absolutely square.

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And there was about, oh, it would, hard to say, just by looking at what the distance would be from between each square.

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There was a little lapway between each setting.

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And I'd imagine that was about half an inch, maybe, could have been a little bit more one way.

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Now this lapway, it would come out to even with the surface.

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That was set even with the surface and it just looked like somebody had taken a two inch square piece of something and just pressed it in.

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And it looked just like a waffle that you would cook yourself, you know, when it was waffles.

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It was really remarkable.

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And the wings were set back, they had such a sharp setback tune that when I first looked at it from the top down, from the top of my horse,

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it looked exactly like an eagle or something that would be taking a power dive down.

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He had his wings back and he was going and I believe that ship could go too.

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I didn't get a chance to stick around too long because the fellow I was working for had other plans there for me that day and I was a little bit late already.

218
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Bringing the cattle in that day, I was having them home by 10 o'clock, this was about 9.30 already.

219
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So I had spent there, oh, I'd say anything from 10 to 15 minutes, looking around it and trying to get everything into my mind what I had seen.

220
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And if anything was asked about that I could answer any questions on it.

221
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But I had wanted very much to go back to see it.

222
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When I got the cattle up, I had to go out and do some bailing.

223
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I never went back, I never had the opportunity to go back to see what had happened then.

224
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The snow storm came after that, it wouldn't have done me much good anyhow.

225
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You don't remember the day of the week?

226
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Oh, it was in the beginning of the week.

227
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I couldn't say exactly, it could have been Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, but exactly which day.

228
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You don't remember how close it was to Thanksgiving or something, the Canadian Thanksgiving?

229
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Well, this was in the middle of the month, middle of October.

230
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Now, you couldn't actually, these dials on the instruments, were they like, do you think there were black dials of white markings like you see in an airplane for night flying?

231
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Or were they more like a clock maybe a white dial with a white thing?

232
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I could see there was markings on them, but I couldn't identify them.

233
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I wasn't close enough, I wear glasses normally for close up, and I don't wear them because I'm far sighted.

234
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And I can see better far away than I can actually close, but when I'm close, I need glasses to bring it out, because otherwise I just see a blur.

235
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I wanted very much to get really close, but I think if I hadn't, if somebody else had been with me, I think we would have really explored.

236
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I had a little more chance, I might have been a little more braver, but with just being by myself and not knowing what to expect, I thought I would just be well enough alone.

237
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And I couldn't see no life around, there was no movements of any kind.

238
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And if there had been around, it could have maybe been in the bush to the west of it.

239
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It could have been a possible chance that they could have been hiding in there, because the underbrush was quite heavy, and the leaves weren't completely gone.

240
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And again, they could have been inside in the back portion of the craft, and not known where they were.

241
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So there was no sign of no life of any kind.

242
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,000
No sound?

243
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,000
No sound, there was no...

244
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,000
And yeah, it was floating in there.

245
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It was floating, there was not even a hissing sound.

246
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I didn't expect to hear some kind of a hissing or some kind of a humming.

247
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,000
There wasn't anything that was ideal to it.

248
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There was anything that we heard, I would have heard it, because I heard birds singing around, but I certainly didn't hear nothing coming from the ship itself.

249
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So you didn't notice any peculiar sensation that they are so after-diggers, if there might have been some radiation or something that you didn't feel anything different?

250
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No, no.

251
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I didn't feel anything, and my wife mentioned to me that she had noticed a couple of times during the night that where the buildings were, west, often to a piece of summer fall, which I had been working on,

252
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there was a bluff sitting in the middle of the, almost in the middle of the field, and she'd often seen a light go behind there, and she says...

253
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What color was the light?

254
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Well, she said it was kind of an orangeish red.

255
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000
Oh.

256
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And I said, no, I can't see why there should be a light around there, because it says there's no road.

257
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I said, all that is on, whether our pens end, so the fellows that I was working for, a neighbor's past just started, there was no road allowance in there,

258
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but it was never used, the brush had all grown into it, and a car could have never got through there.

259
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And the third time she'd seen it, she called me, and of course I just happened to see about five feet of it, above the trees, it had dropped.

260
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Was it a red orange?

261
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It was a red orange.

262
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,000
And how big would it be, say, compared to the full moon?

263
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Well, my wife figured it, that's what it just about what it looked like was a full moon, and still the moon was in opposite direction at that time.

264
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It was on the full moon, but the full moon had just, oh, it's been up about three hours then already, and was way over to the east, southeast.

265
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,000
And this thing disappeared behind the trees right about where you saw this thing?

266
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,000
No, this was further away again, further west.

267
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,000
So there wasn't, we never...

268
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I didn't hear anyone else know other stories about this.

269
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No, we never heard anything more about it, and on my sighting I had never told anybody, I never even told my wife.

270
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I didn't take anybody, believe me, not counting my wife, she doesn't even have what I see anyhow.

271
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:53,000
But especially in things like that, so when I first read an article in Calgary Herald here about the different sightings that were in Michigan,

272
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and one article that struck me very close to home was that where this policeman had seen the object, similar to what I had seen,

273
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a waffle type material and looked like an airplane hooping over his car about ten feet.

274
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And that kind of very much confirmed what I had seen and given me encouragement.

275
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I mean, I should talk what I had seen.

276
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Now, have you, did you read any books on these things prior to seeing this?

277
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:28,000
No, I never, in fact I never even knew there was books until I had met you.

278
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I had never seen or never seen anything like that before.

279
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:42,000
And I was very much confused about it and in fact I was so much concerned about the thing.

280
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I didn't know who to tell it, imagine it too.

281
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So I wrote to National Air and Annihilation Space Administration in Houston and I got an answer back from them which they said that they didn't deal with the FOUs,

282
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but they had sent my information down to Washington to the Air Force there and I'm waiting to hear a word from them now

283
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:14,000
because there was very many interesting questions that I had asked and I would like to have reply on them if possible

284
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:22,000
because the material itself on the plane, definitely to me, looked like plexiglass completely through

285
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:31,000
and a question in my mind was that it stated in this article that it wasn't recognized on radar screen

286
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:40,000
and would it be possible that plexiglass type material like that would be picked up or not?

287
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,000
Would it be possible that the radar just couldn't pick it up?

288
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:52,000
And those are some of the questions that I asked to find out and I wrote to the National Air and Annihilation Space Administration.

289
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Well thank you very, very much Mr. Hertzke and when the grass gets green and spring quite...

290
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,000
Well what you have to go out there is I'm...

291
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:08,000
There's really a chance there might be some difference in the way the grass grows in the spring.

292
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:18,000
Well I'm sure interested in that too because I'm completely wrapped up in this now and I'd certainly like to know just exactly what it is

293
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because I've always been one for... my mind has always been in the universe and of course not having the education to go with that.

294
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I'm always out for knowledge and when I can get something like that I'm right in at that.

295
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,000
There's no end to it for me.

296
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,000
Well certainly you had a wonderful experience. It's just too bad you couldn't get a little closer to that instrument.

297
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:50,000
Well I believe I would have gone closer had I had somebody with me but being by myself and not expecting, not knowing what to expect

298
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,000
I thought I'd just leave well enough alone.

299
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Somebody told me to leave them alone.

300
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I have a family to look after. You leave them alone and they'll leave you alone.

301
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And I still maintain to my own thinking a lot of people that do get close to them for goodness sakes.

302
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Try to surrender to them. Not lead to surrender to them but show them that you're coming peacefully.

303
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And I think that kindness can kill kindness any day. You can win almost anything with kindness but for goodness sakes don't try to be harsh.

304
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Well thank you very much.